http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/ deviantART Journal for sine-out 15 http://a.deviantart.com/avatars/s/i/sine-out.gif http://sine-out.deviantart.com/ 50 50 http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/20231776/ http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/20231776/ And Resistance To The Changes That ResultI'm sure many of the photographers (and some videographers) who are reading this right now, and who happen to keep up on current camera developments have heard of the N... Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:54:50 -0000 And Resistance To The Changes That ResultI'm sure many of the photographers (and some videographers) who are reading this right now, and who happen to keep up on current camera developments have heard of the Nikon D90.The Nikon D90 is an otherwise unremarkable upgrade of the Nikon D80, basically, take the guts of the D300, downgrade a few of the components by using some of the components that can be found in the Nikon D60, and there you have it, a new Advanced Amateur camera. The type of camera a Nikon owner would buy as their second Nikon dSLR, someone like myself, for example, considering an upgrade from a Nikon D40/D50/D40x/D60/D70/D70s (phew, not so much the D80 though, since the advantage isn't as great for the upgrader).Nikon, of course, had to throw a curve-ball (to use a common American vernacular ), something that they seem to be in the habit of doing recently (what with the announcement and subsequent release of cameras like the D3, D700 and D300, all of which have helped to tip the balance of power somewhat).See, the Nikon D90 is the first dSLR with the ability to record video.It's a text book example of convergence, everybody knew that, with the dawning of digital SLR's, that video on dSLR's was inevitable.Evidently, knowing that it will occur is completely different to actually seeing it occur.With the announcement of this feature has come a slew of people coming out of the woodwork that want to say their piece on how wrong it is (and a handful who think it's a good thing, such as myself).I mean, naturally, dSLR's are cameras, they can't possibly be used for the acquisition of video, it's sacrilege to very notion of photography.In the same way that phones with cameras in them are sacrilegious, or how games consoles can access the internets is wrong, or how printers can now scan, copy, or even fax documents (srsly, who uses a fax machine any more? :B).Hell, even MP3 players that also have the misfortune of being able to play video is wrong too.Okay, I'm getting carried away, but I think I've made my point all the same.Convergence is the very essence of technological development.Those who are against cameras like the D90 being able to take video don't seem to realise the advantages that having video on a dSLR would bring. And they frequently forget that Nikon aren't holding a gun to their heads and forcing them to use the video feature (since the video feature itself adds no hardware to the camera (save a microphone and speaker) to let it record video, the fact is that Liveview, and the camera's JPEG engine gives all the tools needed to acquire and store a video stream, meaning the addition of video is effectively free).I like that Video is finally been included, I'm actually surprised it hasn't been sooner.The fact is, is that, if you want a large sensor video camera, you'd need to spend close to $20,000 to get one (go google 'Red One', you'll see how expensive it can get).Now, I'm not saying the D90 is perfect, it records to Motion JPEG (hardly the most efficient format to record to), it has no Audio inputs, and on that note, only records Mono audio. The camera also lacks autofocus, something that even £100 video cameras have available (I'd point that virtually no point and shoot allows you to focus or zoom in video mode, something that the D90 at least allows the option of).But, on the other hand, the D90 offers a few things that most consumer level video cameras can never offer, things like Depth of Field control, interchangeable lenses, and superior high ISO performance.Convergence is a good thing, but it's people stuck in the past, with antiquated ideas of what things should be like that restrict the development of technologies that fun, useful or, even, important.I personally welcome the change, and I hope the ones stuck in the past get their heads out of the sand and realise that that change will come, whether they like it or not.PimpsGive me more stuff to pimp .@Comrade-Kelly's CSS Contest Blog APhAD #devart #MNAdmin A Journal by @sine-out, free for anyone to use and modify as per the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License and can be found at [link] http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/20101637/ http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/20101637/ Yet Another BirthdayIf you couldn't tell by now, I've just completed my first year on the MN@.In that time I've written approximately 3.4Mb of text (about 3564000 characters, assuming 330... Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:52:23 -0000 Yet Another BirthdayIf you couldn't tell by now, I've just completed my first year on the MN@.In that time I've written approximately 3.4Mb of text (about 3564000 characters, assuming 3300 lines at 90 letters per line (which is around my average) every month) on dAmn, kicked roughly 240 people from #devart (assuming 20 kicks per month), and probably banned half that many.So far it's been a blast, here's to another year on the team.Pimps@Comrade-Kelly's CSS Contest Blog APhAD #devart #MNAdmin A Journal by @sine-out, free for anyone to use and modify as per the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License and can be found at [link] http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/19620378/ http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/19620378/ Resistance is FutileSo, I resisted, but I've finally caved.Yes it's that bloody meme.Since @Narfmaster effectively tagged me (by... Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:24:42 -0000 Resistance is FutileSo, I resisted, but I've finally caved.Yes it's that bloody meme.Since @Narfmaster effectively tagged me (by tagging everyone who hadn't done it before), I decided to do it to get it out of the way.Anyway, I chose Fatboy Slim as my artist of choice, mainly because I have a large collection of Fatboy Slim tracks (the Crystal Method comes second then it's basically a sea of individual tracks), and also because he's my top listened artist on last.fm. Are you male or female? I Left My Wallet In El Segundo (Vampire Mix) Describe yourself. Long Way From Home What do people feel when they're around you? Right Here, Right Now How would you describe your previous relationship? Ya Mama Describe your current relationship. Demons Where would you want to be now? The Rockafeller Skank How do you feel about love? In Heaven What's your life like? Wonderful Night What would you ask for if you had only one wish? Love Island Say something wise. Start An AvalancheI tag no-one, just because mostly everyone in my watchlist has done it already .PimpsI might as well make this a permanent fixture.Anyway, the only thing I can think to pimp would be `adonihs's current Journal.If it doesn't bring a smile to your face, at the least, then you've got a heart made of stone, and should be stricken from the internets, or something.Eighth Birthday Prints Event - Art for AIDS Orphans@Comrade-Kelly's CSS Contest Blog APhAD #devart #MNAdmin A Journal by @sine-out, free for anyone to use and modify as per the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License and can be found at [link] http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/19570915/ http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/19570915/ I've been awake too longThis journal is mainly here to clear my previous journal from my userpage.I guess I should pimp some stuff out, since I've been particularly lazy about that recently.... Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:46:29 -0000 I've been awake too longThis journal is mainly here to clear my previous journal from my userpage.I guess I should pimp some stuff out, since I've been particularly lazy about that recently.Firstly, and obviously @Comrade-Kelly has gone and started her own CSS content, to which I am a judge, it can be found at [link]Second, some of you guys may remember a big hoopla last year by the name of 'Weekend to End Breast Cancer', and it was basically a campaign to help $Moonbeam13 raise some cash for the cause.This year, however, this was not really possible (what with everyone knuckling down and releasing v6 and whatnot).To this end, go visit [link] or, if you want to cut out the middle(wo)man, go to $Moonbeam13's Donation page, *theblackmass' Donation page or =mombeam's Donation Page.Third the dATribes contest is over (it has been for, like four days, actually , and the winners will be announced August 7th.Fourth, I turned twenty three yesterday, thanks for all the happy birthdays .Anyway, that's all I can remember to pimp, I'm going to go off to bed :B. Blog APhAD #devart #MNAdmin A Journal by @sine-out, free for anyone to use and modify as per the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License and can be found at [link] http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/19164354/ http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/19164354/ Blog APhAD #devart #... Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:36:58 -0000 Blog APhAD #devart #MNAdmin Clearing block Clearing blockDescriptionThis journal CSS is supposed to be 'simple'.Yes, yes, I know there are a thousand and one 'simple' CSS layouts out there, hell, my last layout purported to be 'simple', and it was a mess, all things considered anyway.This CSS is indirectly for *eCSSited contest (at [link]), which stipulates no images, since I am not a designer, my journal styles have no images by default (the reason why it's indirectly for the aforementioned contest, even though I am entering it, is because I had been thinking of doing a new CSS layout for a long time already, and this just happened to be a nice encouragement).In the lines of 'ease of use' the code is, or at least should be, relatively simple, all you need is a title (if you don't want the splitting benefits of the title you don't actually need one, but for the sake of sectioning, it might be useful) and bog standard text. The HTML in the download should give an example of the text used for this journal, so it should help demonstrate how simple the HTML can be.In the section below, you'll see the various combinations of HTML you can use, one thing you should notice is that, around any 'special HTML' (including divs, blockquotes, ul's, ol's, and dl's) there is an empty line both before and after them, I included this, because, basically, it's easier to read HTML when there is some space around it, and since this layout is supposed to be simple, I thought it prudent... just make sure you keep the same formatting.Another thing to keep in mind is that the activity/mood list (or whatever you want to call it (the list that shows what you're reading/watching/listening too and so on)) should be placed at the bottom, top placement is nice, but it has never worked in my journal, so all my journal 'designs' are organised around that little bug.TestTextThe Nellie, a cruising yawl, swung to her anchor without a flutter of the sails, and was at rest. The flood had made, the wind was nearly calm, and being bound down the river, the only thing for it was to come to and wait for the turn of the tide.The sea-reach of the Thames stretched before us like the beginning of an interminable waterway. In the offing the sea and the sky were welded together without a joint,......and in the luminous space the tanned sails of the barges drifting up with the tide seemed to stand still in red clusters of canvas sharply peaked, with gleams of varnished spirits. A haze rested on the low shores that ran out to sea in vanishing flatness.By someone from somewhere Unordered List Test Test With line breakLorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Sed ipsum urna, congue vitae, accumsan lacinia, aliquam ut, lorem. Nam sodales mauris et risus. Vestibulum enim. Aliquam erat volutpat. Nunc commodo vehicula magna. Mauris sed orci bibendum nibh tincidunt fringilla. Ordered List Test Test With line breakDonec tristique ante. Vestibulum porta pede non nisi. Praesent ac ipsum. Phasellus eu lorem. Nulla nibh diam, commodo eu, egestas quis, sollicitudin eleifend, purus. Aenean semper iaculis neque. Vestibulum vehicula vestibulum erat.Nulla facilisi. Definition List Definition Test Definition Definition title with line break Definition with line breakCras interdum eros vel neque. Duis dapibus ipsum nec nisi. Mauris erat purus, lobortis quis, dapibus a, dictum a, lorem. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Pellentesque quam dui, malesuada quis, porta a, egestas a, tellus.ThumbnailsNormal thumbs Horizontal/Vertical Alignment Thumbtable A Journal by @sine-out, free for anyone to use and modify as per the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License. http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/18998796/ http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/18998796/ Long, long ago, on a website not-so-far away.... Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:05:50 -0000 Long, long ago, on a website not-so-far away...In the great community of deviantART, within the mighty village of dAmn, a war is brewing -- a war to appease the Great Fella God!Many in the past have sought ways to please this angry beast, and many have failed. These tales of great battle and loss are still whispered around the campfires of #devart: `mykel's valiant attempts to offer @realillusions as a virgin sacrifice, or $chix0r's struggles to serenade Fella with her dulcet Scottish tones .. but nothing could be found to please the Great Fella God, not even a scantily clad `Oukan.But now the tides are turning and the war is changing!The mighty warrior $Tachy-on and his valiant troops of MN@ found a way to please Fella, and now the tribes of dAmn are competing for Fella's blessing -- and so can you!You can help gain favor to you and your tribe by luring and trapping new deviants into the great village of dAmn -- but that is not enough to please the Great Fella God! No, you must make sure your new tribesman stay in dAmn by showing them how great our village is! If they stay and your trap is successful, rumor says that the Great Fella God will be mighty pleased...PrizesPrizes will be awarded to the top 3 individual players with the most "Tribal Points" at the end of the game.1'st Prize: $200 deviant dollars2'nd Prize: $125 deviant dollars3'rd Prize: $75 deviant dollarsTribe Prizes: Within the Tribe that has the most combined Tribe Points, 3 random Tribe Members will win $25 deviant dollars.The game will run from June 23'rd through July 21'st.How To PlayYou begin by joining the #dATribes chatroom and laying a “trap” for another person by typing:!trap usernameNow contact that person and tell them about the contest and the dAmn Village! When you get them to join the #dATribes chatroom, the trap is successful, and they become a member of your Tribe. At that point, they can start playing too and help to build the strength of your Tribe. You can set up to 3 traps at a time. When the trap is successful in bringing someone into your Tribe, you gain the trap back. If the trap isn't successful within 24 hours, it disintegrates and you gain another trap to replace it. (The traps are rather primitive and don't stand up to weather very well). You can't set a trap for just anyone. Generally speaking, you won't be able to set a trap for someone who already regularly visits the village of dAmn. How to Gain Tribal PointsFella will be pleased when your traps are successful and you show the new Tribe member how fun the dAmn village can be. It's important to keep them interested in the dAmn Village because it effects how many points you can earn: For every player that you successfully trap into your Tribe, you gain 10 Tribal Points. After that, for each day that person visits the dAmn Village you will gain one additional point - the dAmn village encompasses all chatrooms on the Chat Network. If a Tribe member you've successfully trapped into your Tribe is away from the dAmn village for 5 days or more, you lose the 10 Tribal Points and no longer gain the additional point per day for them.Spying & StealingAs you get better at successfully trapping people, the Fella God will reward you with Steal Spells. For every 3 people you successfully trap into your Tribe, Fella will bless you with a Steal Spell. You can use this Steal Spell at any time to attempt to steal a trap that is set for someone else. Normally you would do this after "spying" on another Tribe and casting it after they have set a trap. If you have a Steal Spell, you can cast it by typing:!steal usernameFor example: @leaf-lover has a Steal Spell and has just noticed that $Tachy-on has just set a trap for $chix0r. @leaf-lover wants to cast the spell so she types !steal chix0r in an attempt to steal the trap set for $chix0r.Should the Almighty Fella be looking upon you favorably, your spell will succeed. Successfully stealing a trap has two advantages: If the trapped player joins the chatroom, they will become a member of your Tribe instead, and so you get the Tribe Points involved. You slow the progress of the other tribe by temporarily cutting down on the number of traps they can set. The trap goes back to the original player once it either successfully traps the user or it disintegrates. You can't attempt to steal traps from members of your own Tribe.Getting Updates on your GameTo get information about your points and events that have happened to you in the game, you can type:!statusThis will tell you how many points you currenty have, how many traps are available to you, and if you have any Steal Spells. It will also show you recent events that have impacted your game. For example, it will tell you when a trap is successful, if someone has stolen your trap, or if a player you've trapped has been away from the dAmn village for more than 5 days.Rules Do not spam users into joining #dATribes to gain a tribe member. All interaction with other deviants with respect to the game must adhere to deviantART policies and etiquette. The use of alternate accounts or any other method to cheat is strictly prohibited. Any user that is found not to be abiding by the rules will be evicted from the game immediately. "Build the Largest Tribe" http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/18917853/ http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/18917853/ Just About Ready for Nursery School Yup, as of the time of writing, I have been a member for almost precisely 4 years.I sort of forgot my last birthday here and I think I didn't even notice my se... Thu, 19 Jun 2008 01:45:34 -0000 Just About Ready for Nursery School Yup, as of the time of writing, I have been a member for almost precisely 4 years.I sort of forgot my last birthday here and I think I didn't even notice my second, so I wanted to say something profound and important for this birthday, but I kept coming up short.So, I think I will analyse and see what I can come up with.Statistics Time! We all love statistics, and every good analysis needs statistics, and lots of them.At the time of writing I have just short of 22,650 page views, which increase at a rate of a whole 15.5 views per day, I have 12,971 forum posts 1,970 comments and 273 favourites, I have 162 watchers and I watch 112 deviants.And, in total, I have 101 deviations + two scraps.Between this and my last birthday, I have gained some 4,000 forum posts and about 10,000 page views (that's a guess though it's likely more).The Profound Bit Between this and my last birthday, I have gone from being a subscriber and beta tester to an MN@, probably my biggest change yet.Over my 'deviant life' I have gone through ~,*,;,=,@ symbol variations.Four years is a very long time, particularly in internetland, where most things last weeks or months, and not years.I came to deviantART to share my poetry (and I am very glad that most of you never got to see it :B), I stayed for the forums .It may be sad that, in an art community, it has been the forums that have kept me here, but, this is, after all, a community, and the forums happen to be one of the integral parts of it (in my opinion, of course).I have learned a great deal thanks to this site, I learned about photography and it was this website that pushed me in the right direction in website development.It also allowed me a stable (and developed) platform on which to develop other aspects of myself, I am, for example, far more confident now than I was when I first joined (though, relatively, I am still very timid in 'real life').As mentioned, I became an MN@ last year (August, to be precise), which has helped me appreciate the work done by those behind the scenes, as well as seeing what's next for the general population.The MN@ had also given me a more or less formal introduction to dAmn, something which I had hardly touched before joining.I keep on seeing, or hearing about those who want to/are leaving this site, and, to be honest, I can't understand why, this site has been of great benefit to me already, it will be interesting to see how far it will take me.Not profound, I know, but, it'll have to do . Using IE? browsehappy.com maybe a place you want to go. About this CSS This CSS was written by @sine-out (with some ideas with thanks from `thespook) and can be found here, this code is free for anyone to use and modify as per the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License.. More?! I really ought to think of something to put in here. Blog APhAD #devart #MNAdmin http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/18618702/ http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/18618702/ Another Month Another Update This month has actually been fairly uneventful, though, fortunately, that hasn't hurt my turn out this month.... Mon, 02 Jun 2008 05:29:08 -0000 Another Month Another Update This month has actually been fairly uneventful, though, fortunately, that hasn't hurt my turn out this month. Twelve keepers in 31 days (technically anyway, more on that later), that's a 38.7% hit ratio. At the very least, I am being consistent with my output.What I wasn't consistent on, however, was my timing, my non-circadian rhythm has really done a number on me, I can naturally have more than 30 hour days when I free run, and this month, no matter what I tried, I couldn't reign that in, to that end I would frequently run out of synch (indeed it got bad enough that I was lapping myself (realigning with socially accepted norms) every three or so days).That combined with a serious lack of 'drive' for lack of a better word due to my constant lack of sleep meant that I sometimes went more than two days without an image.Obviously, this is something that I will have to try to remedy this month.Still, it could have been worse, at least this month I managed to stay consistent with my output. Using IE? browsehappy.com maybe a place you want to go. About this CSS This CSS was written by @sine-out (with some ideas with thanks from `thespook) and can be found here, this code is free for anyone to use and modify as per the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License.. More?! I really ought to think of something to put in here. Blog APhAD #devart #MNAdmin http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/18124045/ http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/18124045/ Mixed Blessings This month went pretty good, all things considered, quite a surprising number of keepers (in my opinion), and not only that, even though for two and a half weeks I was without my D50, I mana... Fri, 02 May 2008 03:03:53 -0000 Mixed Blessings This month went pretty good, all things considered, quite a surprising number of keepers (in my opinion), and not only that, even though for two and a half weeks I was without my D50, I managed to gain something useful from that experience. Ten images, thirty days, thankfully, I don't even need to get the calculator to work out the percentages, exactly 33.3r% in the 'keeper' range, there were a few other 'near misses' too, however, a 1/3rd hit rate is nothing to be sniffed at.This month, as mentioned, I was without my D50 for two and a half weeks and I was relying on a £100 video camera (that thankfully recorded to SD memory).The camera itself had no manual controls, save for exposure compensation (which is only really useful in bright light, in lower light, the camera had a bottom shutter limit of 1/11th of a second, so using exposure compensation to increase the exposure length would not have worked).In addition the quality of its files left a lot to be desired, the JPEG's were not compressed that well (rather, they were, they were compressed too much), and the lens, being fixed focal length, didn't help matters much either.Still, one shouldn't blame his tools, and I didn't, the camera itself did have a few advantages that my D50 doesn't have, the three main ones being that it's small (not really, but it was jacket pocketable), it was light and it has an articulated LCD display (obviously).All of which meant that I was able to take the camera to places I'd normally not be able to take a camera, and that, when it did come to taking the photo's, I'd have more framing opportunities (despite the lack of a zoom lens) because I was able to shoot from the hip, or above my head or what-have-you without contorting my body to get into those positions.In addition to this, I managed to work around (somewhat) the limitations of the file output of the camera by making the camera upsize the image when it came to save the image, and then, in processing, I converted the file to 16bit and downsized it to the 5MP that the camera is supposed to capture.Granted, upsizing and downsizing decreases the quality of an image, but all things considered, the resizing didn't make much of a difference to the image quality (primarily because it wasn't that good to start off with).Still, with that extra computed data, I had more leeway when it came to manipulations which more than made up for the difference.I was also forced to change other aspects of my image processing.For example, on my D50 files, I would normally apply my image manipulations directly to the image itself.However, with the limitations of the images I was getting from the video camera, that would have been impractical, so I had to use adjustment layers instead, now that I have the D50 back, I am still using those techniques, since they allow much greater flexibility with my image editing, and my image editing can be more easily done in stages if necessary.In short, while I didn't necessarily have the tools I'd have preferred to use, the fact that I had a change of pace meant that, this month, I learned just as much about photography than I have done, so far, during the entire time of this challenge. The webcam image is titled 'Pod Bay Doors' by xkcd.com can be found at [link] and is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 2.5 License, more info of which can be found at [link] Using IE? browsehappy.com maybe a place you want to go. About this CSS This CSS was written by @sine-out (with some ideas with thanks from `thespook) and can be found here, this code is free for anyone to use and modify as per the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License.. More?! To Do Write a To Do I actually get around to doing Get the gallery system for ^cooley's website done and dusted - Done as much as needed Write Phobos, for APhAD, in time for the new year - working, not feature complete Write or find a hit counter system thingy Learn to take pretty pictures Learn that the outside really isn't that scary Write a novel, or five Finish reading Prophet Without Honour - Pretty good book given that it's based on a Free MMO Pop in to dAmn Get a Life, maybe - psh, yeah, like that's going to happen, done because it's never going to happen :B ????? PROFIT!! Links Here are some links to pages that I have likely had direct involvement with. My Flickr My YouTube Me on userstyles.org sineout.com/blog lewisupperton.com iamcooley.com bytuan.com Here are some more that, well you may be interested in, possibly. Paper Conversation Project Blog APhAD #devart #MNAdmin http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/17759606/ http://sine-out.deviantart.com/journal/17759606/ dAmn is now smoking hot, before... Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:12:28 -0000 dAmn is now smoking hot, before it was hot, but now it's even better last.fm The webcam image is titled 'Pod Bay Doors' by xkcd.com can be found at [link] and is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 2.5 License, more info of which can be found at [link] Using IE? browsehappy.com maybe a place you want to go. About this CSS This CSS was written by @sine-out (with some ideas with thanks from `thespook) and can be found here, this code is free for anyone to use and modify as per the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License.. More?! To Do Write a To Do I actually get around to doing Get the gallery system for ^cooley's website done and dusted - Done as much as needed Write Phobos, for APhAD, in time for the new year - working, not feature complete Write or find a hit counter system thingy Learn to take pretty pictures Learn that the outside really isn't that scary Write a novel, or five Finish reading Prophet Without Honour - Pretty good book given that it's based on a Free MMO Pop in to dAmn Get a Life, maybe - psh, yeah, like that's going to happen, done because it's never going to happen :B ????? PROFIT!! Links Here are some links to pages that I have likely had direct involvement with. My Flickr My YouTube Me on userstyles.org sineout.com/blog lewisupperton.com iamcooley.com bytuan.com Here are some more that, well you may be interested in, possibly. Paper Conversation Project Blog APhAD #devart #MNAdmin